The #1 Reason Trauma Survivors Struggle with Trust in Marriage (And What to Do About It) | Christopher Campanile
[00:00:00] Has a partner ever said to you, “You can trust me,” but instead of feeling reassured, you felt tense, skeptical, or anxious? Me too. That's because trauma trains our nervous systems to scan for danger, making trust seem like something we have to continually work for, instead of something we can relax into.
I’m Dr. Annie Campanile, trauma survivor and professional coach, and in this episode of Heal Your Trauma, Find Your Voice, I'm sitting down with my husband, Christopher, for a vulnerable and honest conversation about the number one reason trauma survivors struggle with trust in marriage, and the simple actions that helped us stop expecting the worst and start enjoying our life together.
We break down the small moments that made the biggest difference, like when I helped him heal an old fear response with just three simple words: "Smooches are coming!"
If you want to feel safe, valued, and free to be yourself in relationships, without bracing for criticism or [00:01:00] rejection, this episode is for you.
Welcome back to episode 10. Last week we explored Kindred Trust, the kind of trust that is safe, mutual, and reliable. But let's be real. When you've spent years feeling like you have to overthink every conversation, scan for signs of rejection, or make sure everyone else is okay before you can relax, trusting a friend or partner can feel unnatural.
Your nervous system might be wired to expect disappointment, criticism, or abandonment, even when you're with someone who truly cares about [00:02:00] you. That's why today I'm sharing a deeply personal conversation with Christopher.
We're talking about the simple, everyday shifts that helped us break out of survival mode and build a relationship where we can be ourselves and stop worrying that we are about to be criticized or left behind. Let's dive in.
Dr. Annie: Okay. Mr. Chris
Christopher Campanile: Yes, ma'am.
Dr. Annie: What does Kindred Trust mean to you?
Christopher Campanile: Mm-hmm. Kindred Trust is when I give all of myself, my partner is also giving all of themselves and it's mutual. I can be free, I can be creative, I can be so generous, and I know it's gonna be returned.
The way I experience trust with you came from the fact that I started to learn how to trust, when you said you like something, or you said you didn't like something, or you wanted something, or you didn't want to do something[00:03:00]
I slowly but surely started to learn that this person is telling me the truth, and there's not some hidden agenda or a fear, or you're not accepting something that I want to do simply because you just want to get along.
Like you were strong, you communicated clearly, and you were comfortable with that. And I feel like from my perspective, that's how we were able to cultivate that kindred trust, because then I was able to be myself and say what I really want, because I knew that when I presented something and you said, “Yes, let's do it” I could get 100% excited about it, because you were being 100% honest and true to yourself and therefore me.
Dr. Annie: So I'd like to talk about, when we first met, the things that triggered us to move into Cactus Trust or Velcro Trust to protect ourselves and then how we helped each other change that pattern and feel [00:04:00] safer with kindred trust.
When we met, I had been by myself for more than three years. Before that, I had been nursing my late husband when he was sick with cancer for a year, and I created a very sensitive response to any kind of sound happening at night. Mm-hmm. If I was alone in the bedroom and there was a sound, I just immediately jumped up and I, my heart raced because I was worried, “Is he alive? Does he need something?”
Even though it had been more than three years, I hadn't shared a home with anybody, so my nervous system was still very much primed for "If there's any sound, there's a problem." And so, because you and I have very different circadian rhythms, I go to bed sooner, right? I was so uncomfortable with going to bed alone and you being in the living room and you would sometimes fall asleep in the living room, which was normal for you.
Christopher Campanile: Yeah.
Dr. Annie: [00:05:00] But it took me a long time to not wake up and notice you not in the bed and not panic like, “Oh God, is he is he breathing?”
Like literally that would go through my mind. So part of how I became comfortable or calmer was self coaching. I would lie there and remind myself of what year it was and who was in the living room. It was you. It was not Doug. Right? Right. You are alive. Anyway, I had to coach myself through that. Yeah. But then also you had such a lovely idea, which was when you would open the door, because I'm such a light sleeper, it would wake me up and you would whisper, “It's me.”
Christopher Campanile: Yes. So I called it Death By A Thousand Doorknobs, I think it was. And even if I just had to wake up in the morning step out and come back in, I knew you were gonna hear [00:06:00] every creak because you have supersonic hearing powers.
And I would just whisper, "It's me" so that I knew that you could hear it and you could go to sleep. And you, we've heard death by a thousand cuts, you know, which on one hand is a bad thing. You know, each tiny little cut makes a big difference. This was death to the fear of a thousand, "It's Me”s. So I wanted to put your mind at ease, every time you heard that sound, "It's me. Everything's safe. You’re okay. We're good here."
And that seemed to really work because just, I think it was just this prior year. After what? Four? How long have we been together? Five years. Five years. After five years. Almost four and a half. You said, “I think I'm okay now. You don't have to whisper it's me anymore.”
And so I think it worked.
Dr. Annie: Yeah, it really did. It was very helpful. And [00:07:00] the fact that you didn't have a reaction of irritation by my concern or my wanting you to be in the bed with me. Mm-hmm.
This is part of Kindred trust, where we want to hear each other, we want to understand each other's perspective, rather than feel that reactive judgment because we're worried we're getting judged, where we're like, "Ah, why should I be in the bedroom?"
I could see that happening, if we weren't in that safer, Kindred Trust space.
Christopher Campanile: Right? I think that shift from me saying, "Hey, someone's telling me to do something, I'm gonna react defensively" to me saying, " Hey, I wonder what that person's suffering is. Can I do anything to make that person feel better?"
And for me, I come from somewhat of a, a Buddhist background, and that's how I kind of rebuilt myself after my trauma. [00:08:00] And one of the things I inferred from my practice was the more I act with love, the more I clear away the, the dust in the filter.
So by saying, "How can I help this other person?" I'm no longer in that defensive mode of, "Hey, wait, somebody's making me change." That doesn't even matter anymore.
All I can think is, "how can I help my baby?"
Dr. Annie: So a trust trigger that we found for you when, after we bought our first house, I would come downstairs when you were working.
Christopher Campanile: Oh yeah.
Dr. Annie: And I was excited to come see you and surprise you with a hug and a kiss. But your nervous system had been trained to expect something different. Do you wanna talk about that?
Christopher Campanile: Absolutely. Yeah. So this is something where Annie did the same thing for me. We had a two floor home in Vermont and I set up my man cave downstairs and [00:09:00] it was beautiful. And, I'd hear someone coming downstairs and then it would just, I'd get this feeling like the hair would stand up on my back, and my shoulder would get tight, and I'd just feel like, “Ugh, someone's coming to stop me from my joy.”
And I remember that that's something that just just came with me from my youth, where I just felt like anytime somebody came, they were coming to just stop me. Like, "Chris, why aren't you doing your homework? Why didn't you do this? Why don't you do that?"
I had this really stressful experience growing up and it was just constant loudness and yelling and, and reprimands and uh, and, and criticisms. And Annie, after I told her about this problem, she said, "From now on, every time you hear me coming down the stairs, just think I'm bringing smooches."
Christopher Campanile: So, so I actually did that. I thought, all right. From now on, I hear this noise and everything [00:10:00] would happen. I'd get the, the tension in my head and my back and the hair would stand up, and then I'd think, "That's Annie bringing Smooches."
And I still have that issue. Mm-hmm. But over time it's become way, way more exciting and loving and, and supportive feeling to me that Annie is coming to bring me joy, rather than coming to take something away from me.
And I can see now that in my past relationships. I brought that baggage to the relationship and if somebody wanted something from me, I reacted as if they were trying to change me.
If they came in to, to interrupt me for something, I assumed they were being critical like my mom, you know? So. Mm-hmm. Sorry to everybody I dated. That's it.
Dr. Annie: One thing that I did to try to help send that message consistently is that even if I was coming downstairs to change the laundry over, which was in a different area, I would first come to [00:11:00] you and give you a smooch.
Even if I was like feeling rushed. That was the most important thing to me. I wanted your nervous system and your survival brain to get that new pattern set. So that you would know, oh yeah, that sound means love is coming.
Christopher Campanile: Yeah. That's brilliant.
Dr. Annie: Yeah.
Christopher Campanile: And I very much appreciate it.
Dr. Annie: Thank you.
Yeah. I mean, we really benefit from each other's deep desire to support the other.
Christopher Campanile: And that's a perfect return to Kindred trust because if you were to do that for me and I didn't reciprocate, it wouldn't be Kindred Trust.
Dr. Annie: Yeah, that's a good point.
Christopher Campanile: It would. And if you kept trying to do it over and over again, correct me if I'm wrong.
Dr. Annie: Yeah.
Christopher Campanile: But that would be more like a Velcro Trust for you and a Cactus Trust on my end of things.
Dr. Annie: Exactly.
Christopher Campanile: And you're putting everything into the relationship trying to help me, and I'm not changing and I'm keeping you at arm's length. That, to me feels like, um, [00:12:00] well, it, it's, it's the opposite of joy.
Dr. Annie: Yeah.
Christopher Campanile: And the Kindred Trust is a real reciprocal, 100% full self-giving and receiving. The ability to accept that support, knowing that you're also giving that support and you found that person who's gonna bond mutually.
Dr. Annie: Yeah.
Christopher Campanile: And to me, you know, I don't know what it's like for anybody else, but for me that's, that's how I experience it.
Dr. Annie: Yeah. Hopefully over time we'll hear from other people to hear how they experience this quality of trust where you can fully be yourself. You don't have to change who you are in order for someone to love you and vice versa.
We do adjust though. So we're not changing who we are fundamentally, but we have intentionally shifted our behaviors, like what we just said.
Christopher Campanile: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Annie: Where you would open the door and say, "It's me." And I would come downstairs and say, "Smooches are coming." We wouldn't do that if we weren't together.
So we made [00:13:00] adjustments, but I think that because the way we care for each other allows us to continually calm our survival response, we are becoming more and more fully ourselves in the relationship.
For Christopher and me, it took years to recognize when past trauma was triggering a survival response, and even longer to figure out how to calm it with love and compassion. But once we did, we finally began to relax, trust each other, and fully enjoy the love, happiness, and freedom we had always wanted.
If you've ever felt like you had to manage relationships to make them last or struggled to trust that love could actually be safe, then I hope this episode will help you begin to see how you can overcome survival driven trust for yourself.
Here's a simple activity that can get you started. If you'd like to help your friend or partner feel safer with you, try [00:14:00] this.
Ask them to sit down with you.
Then take a breath, look into their eyes and say something simple like, “I love you just as you are,” or, “It's okay if you make mistakes. You don't have to be perfect with me.”
Then pause. Give them a moment to take it in. They might never have experienced anything like this before, so try not to expect a certain response.
If they laugh or cry or seem caught off guard, that's not a sign that you did something wrong. Sometimes it's overwhelming to hear that you're enough just as you are. So try to resist the urge to interrupt, reassure or explain.
The most important part is just being present and pausing to allow your person to have their own experience. Because a moment of eye contact and a simple, steady message like, “I love you just as you are,” can be more healing than you might expect.
I want to acknowledge that sharing eye contact might feel really intimate and a little uncomfortable, [00:15:00] and some people just won't wanna do it. That's totally okay. But if you can give it a try, you might find that that small act of intimacy, just sharing eye contact, can help both of you feel more connected.
It's moments like these - small, calm, consistent moments - that teach our nervous systems that we don't have to stay on guard. Over time, trust stops feeling like work and starts feeling like something you can rely on.
If you'd like more of my conversations with Christopher, send me a DM on Instagram @DrAnnieCampanile and let me know. Your feedback helps shape this podcast and I truly want to know what you want to hear.
And if it was helpful for you, I would love it if you would scroll down and tap the five stars on Apple or Spotify and even write a review on Apple, letting me know your biggest takeaway from today's episode.
Next week I'll be answering a listener's question about how to know when decisions are driven by [00:16:00] fear.
Because it's one thing to be decisive and rush into action, and it's another to make decisions with clarity and confidence.
So if you've ever made a decision that seemed right in the moment, but later left you fixing misunderstandings or wondering, “Why did I do that?” You won't want to miss it.
In the meantime, if you'd like some extra support, download my free guide on anniecampanile.com.
Until then, I'm Dr. Annie Campanile reminding you that healing is possible and you don't have to do it alone. See you next week.
